User talk:Muke

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Font Usage

Muke, I have my own alphabet and a font that I created myself. Is there any way to use this font on Frathwiki pages (for native names)? (I am aware that, should there be a way to do this, many would not see it - but for those who have the font, it would be great, in addition to transliterations.)User Talk:Pisceesumsprecan

Thanks, Muke. Your advice on the above works perfectly! Just one more thing: how do you change the font size? Sorry to bother you again.

Combining Diacritics

Muke, I don't get how to use the combining diacratics. How do they combine with other letters? Still struggling. I'm trying to combine ◌̄ with an æ ligature and, after following yor advice - placing the combining diacratic after the æ, it still does not combine. What could I be doing wrong? I use Internet Explorer 7, if this helps. User Talk:Pisceesumsprecan

UPDATE: I've found that the character I want exists anyway. When I use diacratics, I put, for instance, æ◌̄, but the ◌̄ seems to be treated as a letter in its own right. I can't delete the o without first deleting the diacratic (refuses to put cursor between them), which beats the object. Like I said, I've found the right character anyway, so it's no longer a problem, but you may be interested in the behaviour of the software.

Silindion wiki

Muke, This is Elliott from Conlang. I've been working on a Silindion wiki, I was wondering if you would have the time to comment on it, and maybe provide any formatting and or other advice? thanks.

Trebor/Tables etc.

LOL. This is Trebor Jung of Conlang. Is this Wiki for your own personal use or can anyone post stuff on their conlangs and/or conworlds? You can reply to me at treborjung at free dot fr. Thanks.

Anyone can feel free to post here.  :x) —Muke Tever | 11:32, 24 Jun 2004 (PDT)

Trebor again. How do you make tables in Wikipedia? I've seen examples but they look complicated... Thanks. 28 June 2004 14:55 EST

If you know how, you can use HTML to make tables. Otherwise, there is a simpler wiki table markup described in brief at FrathWiki:How does one edit a page, and a detailed description of a the table formats the wiki understands at MediaWiki User's Guide: Using tables. If that's still not clear, you could mark what needs tabulated, and I could give working on it a shot. —Muke Tever | 13:16, 28 Jun 2004 (PDT)

Thanks. Please make tables at Kasin for consonants and vowels (please add place of articulation; you can delete the X-Sampa representation), and at Kosi for these: Consonants, Vowels, (again please add POA), Cases, Possession, Demonstratives, Aspects, Moods, Voices, Derivation, and Lexicon . Much appreciated!

I tried creating a table for Kosi's vowels. How does it look? (Because I'm visually impaired I can't actually check it myself.) --Trebor, 29 June 2004, 18:00 EST

It looks all right, except the purpose of the rounded / unrounded line confuses me — the way it lines up it shows "Unrounded" in the same column as "Mid", and "Rounded" in the same column as "Front" (so that i and e seem to be classed as front rounded vowels). I'd fix it now but I can't quite make out which cells "Rounded" and "Unrounded" are intended to head (it might need a little more reformatting). —Muke Tever | 15:30, 29 Jun 2004 (PDT)

Whoops. Here are Kosi's vowels and their X-Sampa equivalents: i /i/, ü /y/, û /M/, u /u/, e /e/, ö /2/, y /@/, jo /jo/, ô /7/, o /o/, a /a/, ja /ja/. And could you also help me with tables for Kosi Cases, Possession, Demonstratives, Aspects, Moods, Voices, Derivation, and Lexicon (Lexicon headings: Kosi, Etymology, English; you can remove the brackets and < for the etymology. Also, could you make a vowel table and grammatical structures table at Kasin. Thanks! Or if you like, I'll try making tables and you can check them? --Trebor, 12:27 EST, 30 June 2004

I'm working on them by and by. —Muke Tever | 11:53, 30 Jun 2004 (PDT)

Oh, I see.

How come when I enter in an accent with Alt codes (e.g. o-trema alt+0246), the page goes out of forms mode without having saved my changes? Annoying. --Trebor, 19:24, 30 June 2004

My guess is your number lock is off, thus instead of the alt-46 at the end it's reading it as alt-left and alt-right (go back a page, then go forward again) — if I do that in IE it will erase changes that I've made. If that's not the problem, I'm not sure offhand what else it could be. —Muke Tever | 17:51, 30 Jun 2004 (PDT)

That's strange, I just tried alt+0246 and it worked. But my numb lock was on when I noticed this problem yesterday too (AFAIK)... --Trebor, 08:57 EST, 1 July 2004

The wrong version loads

The Sisiwön article mentions it is a collaborative conlang. In the group for discussing it, Alex Fink mentioned he added to it, but he additions aren't on the page. I thot maybe the Recent Changes page might give a link to the new version, but it doesn't work. On the Recent Changes page I also noticed you added a Lexicon table to Kosi, but it's not on that page. I went to edit the page, but the table formatting exists in the Edit This Page box, so why not in the actual article? This is very puzzling. --Trebor, 09:52 EST, 2 July 2004

My guess is that your browser is loading from its cache instead of the server. Try a hard reload (usually shift-F5) when you view a page, and see if that helps. —Muke Tever | 07:08, 2 Jul 2004 (PDT)

Even more puzzling, I edited Sisiwön and Kosi, and the changes appeared in the articles :O --Trebor, 11:04, 2 July 2004 EST

Problem with Table

Sisiwön has a consonant table but it won't show up properly in the article. Why won't it work? --Trebor, 21:17, 2 July 2004 EST

It should be fixed now. The table had been begun with pipe then open-brace "|{", instead of open-brace then pipe "{|", so it wasn't interpreting it as a table. —Muke Tever | 18:25, 2 Jul 2004 (PDT)

Hi Muke, I have a small request: Would you mind please deleting my Trebor page as well as the Kasin page? Thanks. --Trebor


Hi Muke, here's a question to you...

A few days ago, I asked Grzegorz Jagodziński to comment on the Slavic soundchanges discussion on Talk:Slevan. However, when he tried to register (or to make an edit), he got the following answer: Your IP address is listed as an open proxy in the [ SORBS] DNSBL. You cannot create an account. As he assured me, his IP address is not an open proxy at all. His Internet connection is of such kind that his IP is hidden, and that instead the IP of his provider is shown. There's nothing he can do about that, and obviously he has nothing in common with disseminating spam. Is there anything that can be done? Oddly enough, he had no problem at all registering at Wikipedia.

Cheers, IJzeren Jan 11:38, 22 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Hi! This is a feature I didn't know about, but apparently Proxy blocking is on by default. I shut it off so Grzegorz should be able to login or make edits now. Any further problems, let me know. —Muke Tever | 17:19, 22 Aug 2005 (PDT)
Thank you! -- 21:52, 22 Aug 2005 (PDT)

The Longman Defining Vocabulary

I sent this to you by email, but got no answer. Perhaps my spam filter ate it?

Hi Muke,

Do you think User:Melroch/Longman_Defining_Vocabulary would be OK on FrathWiki? Wordlists aren't copyrightable as such, but this is based on some research obviously! I can of course write to Longman and ask, but it should be noted that it is cited in respectable academic pages like this and this (these are actually the same site). Note that the version of the vocabulary at that page is put into an HTML table, meaning that if you select-copy it the alphabetic order will be destroyed...

To increase the usefulness of the vocabulary, and the amount of independent work and so the fair- use-factor I have added a version of the vocabulary sorted by frequency.

BPJ 14:31, 26 April 2006 (PDT)

It can probably stand. (I got your mail but it appears that I neglected to respond.) —Muke Tever | 17:25, 26 April 2006 (PDT)
OK, then I'll move it from my user space to a regular page.

Do you think there is any category it would fit under? BPJ 05:03, 27 April 2006 (PDT)

I suppose Category:Lexica unless something more à propos emerges. —Muke Tever | 15:12, 27 April 2006 (PDT)

The new Langmaker wiki

What about adding an interwiki link to the new Langmaker wiki (and linking to it on the frontpage among the other wikis)?

BPJ 14:10, 30 April 2006 (PDT)


Just wanted to say thanks.

Deletion please

Please delete this page. There is a typo in its title. --George D. Bozovic (talk) 08:32, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

Latin Pinyin

Hi! I've dropped some suggestions at Talk:Latin Pinyin. I really should get those Vulgar Latin pages I'm planning underway... BPJ 07:38, 15 July 2006 (PDT)

Unicode display again

Would it be possible to put a

body {
   font-family: list of fonts from IPA class;
   font-family /**/:inherit;

definition into MediaWiki:Common.css to make things more generally readable to MSIE users, or would it ruin other aspects of the main definition of body? I think it would be a Good Thing if it worked.

FWIW I think Template:IPA is still a good idea, not least 'coz I would like to have the main body in a serif font but IPA in sans in my own style sheet, though I haven't implemented it just yet, since I've abused Template:IPA in my Kijeb page to make sure ŋ is readable — something I hope to be able to remove. Besides the Vulgar latin page(s) I'm planning will be gibberish unless Unicode is clearly visible throughout, since there will of course be macrons, breves, underdots and "ogoneks" all over the place... BPJ 14:56, 15 July 2006 (PDT)

Sure, go ahead and try it. —Muke Tever | 20:03, 15 July 2006 (PDT)
I did, and it seems to work — i.e. [User:Melroch/sandbox] looks OK in MSIE when I'm not logged in — but it begs the question in what order we should have the fonts in the list, as that order is the order of preference picked by browsers. May I suggest DejaVu Sans as first choice, as it is a relatively neutral sans that renders reasonably crisply, and AFAIK sans is the default choice of MediaWiki?
BTW when not using my own style sheet FrathWiki shows in a rather small font size on my machine in all of Firefox, MSIE and Opera. Is that due to some setting in the wiki, or to some weirdness on my system?
Would it be possible to make some kind of poll among registered users as to the default/common.css style issues?, as we don't want to scare new users or visitors away with poor readability.
BPJ 05:48, 16 July 2006 (PDT)
Well, I'm not sure whether there's enough community among the users to gather enough to answer polls. What one could do is set up a page with snippets of CSS that people who might be interested in making particular changes can copy into their user stylesheet. —Muke Tever | 06:30, 28 July 2006 (PDT)

IPA character entry.

Have a look at this:

I wonder if there might be a way to make it into a real wiki page? As is you have to copy-paste it into a local file. Also it should of course have its labels translated into English -- I can do *that*, but I suck at JavaScript. I wonder if it could replace the current IPA character entry system on the edit page? It would take too much place probably, above the save/preview buttons and all!

To provide one 'phonemic' and one 'phonetic' version of the IPA template insertionlink seems a good idea to me, but the slashes/brackets should go inside the template:

{{IPA|/.../}}, {{IPA|[...]}}

which IMHO looks best if the IPA is displayed in another font than the surrounding text. BPJ 05:06, 28 July 2006 (PDT)

It might be feasible to set up such a thing with the <charinsert> tag currently used, in conjunction with the "editintro" extension (i think it's in metawikipedia:Inputbox) to create a keyboard _above_ the edit box. As for making it a wiki page in itself, that would take a bit of engineering: as javascript isn't allowed in wiki pages itself, its function would have to be divided so that all the actual javascript would site in the site's js file. (But I, too, suck at Javascript, and couldn't implement this.) As for the other thing, the character inserts are put in from Mediawiki:Copyrightwarning and as a sysop you can feel free to improve it; as only I have touched the page so far I consider it rough and provisional. —Muke Tever | 06:27, 28 July 2006 (PDT)

Request for deletion

Hi Muke; I'd appreciate it if you'd please delete Kosi_grammar. Thanks. Trebor 19:01, 8 August 2006 (PDT)

Screwed up pages by trying to rename one

Hi, Muke -- I think I've made a mess. I was trying to update the page "Neo-Khitanese" to reflect that I've given the lingo a proper name now and not just a placeholder. In trying to update the link to it on the "League of Lost Languages Page" I managed to create a page "Kilda Kelen" with no content; that's the name I want to rename the old "Neo-Khitanese" page. But since this blank "Kilda Kelen" now exists, I can't use the "move" command. And I don't know how to delete the rotten thing. Could you unbollux this for me when you get a chance? All I think needs to be done is to rename the page now listed as "Neo-Khitanese" as "Kilda Kelen". Many apologies! -- Kuroda, 24 August '06

Deleting categories

Hi Muke -- due to my stupidity I erroneously created two wrong categories, but I seem to be unable to delete them. Is that supposed to be, or is there some special step that has to be taken to delete categories (as opposed to normal articles, which I can delete pretty easily)? Thanks -Denihilonihil 20:09, 24 November 2006 (PST)


Hi, Muke. I have a problem. On my page: Tauro-Piscean Republic the Infobox won't work properly and all of its elements are scattered across the page.

What have I done wrong?--Pisceesumsprecan 07:46, 23 March 2008 (PDT)

References and Quoting

I can't seem to get the referencing and footnote techniques to work for High German. Am I missing something? User:Blackkdark June 3rd, 2008

Somehow the extension that allows those hadn't been installed yet. (Just fixed that.) —Muke Tever | 00:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing it, but now I don't know exactly how to use it for the site. At the end I have two direct quotes from a site, and I can't seem to get it to go down to references and insert them. Any ideas or such? --Blackkdark 00:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
It looks like your syntax may be wrong. See wikipedia:Help:Footnotes for the way the tags are to be used. —Muke Tever | 04:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Front page update

Hi. Me again!

Well, I had an idea to change the main page quite significantly, but I think it would make the site more efficient to use and more attractive.

It might take me a while to put my ideas together and pick the best design. I will do it as a separate page first to demonstrate, but how would you feel about this?

--Pisceesumsprecan 20:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, feel free to make improvements. It is a wiki, after all. I'd suggest you post proposed changes to Talk:Main Page though so discussion can happen if anyone else is interested. —Muke Tever | 21:33, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Check out my demo page. I finished it, but I can of course make alterations. What do you think?--Pisceesumsprecan 17:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Editing of Pages


I am wondering if I can rename and/or delete entire pages? Ilya, one of my categories has undergone quite a few revisions and I would like to do some intense editing. Thanks. - Qang

For a bit of fun, I tried to create an alternative FrathWiki logo.


I'm not ordering you to use it, but if you like it, I thought I'd offer it to you. If you're interested in it, but there are bits you don't like, tell me and I'll do my best to change it. I can also send you the original Photoshop file with layers.

It is based on the pyramid in the conlang flag. Part of it is deliberately missing (revealing a gold glow beneath to represent insight) akin to the Wikipedia puzzle piece. I thought the texture looked a bit Gothic (relating to the word 'Frath', which is Gothic in origin).

I have created the image in its entirety by myself, so there are no copyright issues.

--Pisceesumsprecan 15:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Interesting ideas. How about putting together a vote, to see what other people think? There may be others with ideas floating around as well that could be considered. Could probably start FrathWiki:Logo for the discussion. —Muke Tever | 10:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Mine is not the only logo. Somebody submitted this one to me:

I really like it for its simplicity.

--Pisceesumsprecan 06:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

As you probably know, I've made quite a few changes round here recently. So I've made an article about why I made them and what I might be able to do in the future. There is a link to it on the Main Page. I hope you've liked all of the changes and that you don't think I'm getting too big for my boots. I do enjoy working on FrathWiki.

Also, I'm altering the version of my logo, so we should see that discussion resparked some time soon.

--Pisceesumsprecan 16:46, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


You may have noticed Wikipedia has updated its charinsert box - divided into segments choosable from a drop-down. Is it possible to install that (or a suitable tweak of it) here? Each segment also has an updated glyph order that I find to be much more useful than the Unicode default.

Also, did you ever notice IPA is included twice, first at the top & then within the Latin range (this time with all the outdated/unofficial letters too)? --John Vertical 10:34, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, the character edit box is included from FrathWiki:Special character insertion and should be editable, if you can put together a better character arrangement... as far as the dropdown, that doesn't require installation... it's just a bit of javascript for Mediawiki:Monobook.js. The code depends on what the character sections end up being though, so if you want to make any changes it might be best to do that first (for now anyway; it can always be changed). —Muke Tever | 22:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Melroch and Common CSS

Hi, Muke. The Common CSS has been changed by Melroch and everything is big. Also, I've checked out Melroch's sandbox and it contains the following strange messages:

-yes yes sir Melroch-

-yes no way Melroch-

-no no way Philip-

I'm concerned that the account has been hacked.

On a different note, there is a consensus that the logo should be replaced by Cedh Audmanh's plain version (second on this page: FrathWiki:Logo).


--S.C. Anderson 19:14, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

As far as the sandbox, it just seems to be a test of conditional templates. Not sure about the change to common.css; it seems to have had a greater effect in some browsers than others, so it might just have been insufficient testing. I've put the new logo in place. —Muke Tever | 06:21, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Common CSS blooper

What have you done to the Common CSS? Everything's big!--S.C. Anderson 19:09, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that. My user CSS caused me not to see the real effect of what I had done! One million apologies! BPJ 07:06, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Spammer alert

User: User:Dampen
Page: Lamasery

User: User:Infiltrations
Page: McVeigh

User: User:Shelvings
Page: Bulkheads

User: User:Partakers
Page: Beautified

Page/Picture Deletion

Can you delete this page?

And these pictures?!.jpg

Thank you. - David

I've deleted them. I hope you will offer more of your content to FrathWiki in the future. Good luck with your conlanging. --S.C. Anderson 23:30, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Account Deletion

Hi there, again. This is a really good site. And I have had a lot of fun on it with me and my friends. I have always been interested in conlanguages and always will, but for now I don't really feel it's my thing (making them, I mean, I love to read about them though). So for now I think I need my account deleted. I will definitely still visit this site even after I do so. Maybe one day later I will make an account on this site again when I have more time. Thanks alot! --David 02:07, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure about deleting my account

Yes, I'm sure I want to delete my account. I meant I intend to look at things on the site. And if one day I decide to make a new account, I will. However now, I am trying to minimize my computer use. And I think for me the best way is to eliminate the cause. So, I'm sorry that I seem so insistent, because it's never a nice day when someone wants to delete their account, and it's nothing about the site itself, I am just trying really hard to spend more time doing other, at that, I'm sorry for leaving, but I think for now this is what I need to do (sounds like I'm about to kill myself xD). Thanks for understanding. Good-bye. --David 03:12, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Merge needed

I've been organizing things a little, and found the pages A priori conlang and A priori, which should probably be merged.

There is also A posteriori, but the page A posteriori conlang has not yet been written. --Trɔpʏliʊmblah 12:40, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Spambot invasion

Check the user creation log... --Trɔpʏliʊmblah 11:07, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

There seems to be a new wave of spambot attacks. A few months ago we had the same problem over at the AkanaWiki, which we were able to solve by installing the ConfirmEdit extension, set to use QuestyCaptcha (which will pose one of several questions easy to answer for a person interested in conlanging, but difficult for a bot) on creation of a new user account. --cedh audmanh 00:18, 15 July 2011 (PDT)

I do intend to install a captcha mechanism of some sort -- it may not be within the next couple of days though, as I am away from home and my Internet access is limited. —Muke Tever | 10:15, 15 July 2011 (PDT)

Deletion when you can

When you can, could you delete these pages? I tried to put up a conlang but I decided it wasn't working out.

Thanks --ПазмивниеVündëo Achist (Shout Here) 00:39, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Done. —Muke Tever | 21:51, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks again! --ПазмивниеVündëo Achist (Shout Here) 15:45, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for changing my user name Christina 04:47, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Page does not display correctly

I've added a short page about my conlang Buruya Nzaysa, but I encountered a server error when saving. The full content is there when I click the version link in the history, but all I get when I want to access the page normally is an error message The database did not find the text of a page that it should have found... Is there any way to fix this? cedh audmanh 12:06, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I deleted the page and recreated it from the content in the version link; it seems to work now. Dunno what might have caused it, but let me know if the problem recurs. —Muke Tever | 12:15, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! cedh audmanh 13:35, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

The wiki won't save my edits

I was working on this page: [[1]], when suddenly I couldn't edit it anymore. When I tried to save my changes I just got a page that said "Internal error". I lost the latest stuff I was trying to add, and now I can't edit the page at all anymore. WTF is up? --Qwynegold 19:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

That sounds a lot like the error I had a few days ago... cedh audmanh 22:27, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
It's closer to Talk:Main_Page#Internal_server_error but I think the cause is the same. I will look into it — I'm experiencing it also. —Muke Tever | 22:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Ugh. All right, I am not sure offhand what might be causing the error (your error was the first error of the day in my access logs...). I will recommend to you the same thing that I recommended at Talk:Main_Page#Internal_server_error — try clearing your cache, because it's possible the error message is cached somehow and interfering with normal operation (this worked for me a few minutes ago when I had difficulty adding my previous comment, at least, but I'll admit I'm not terribly sure of it as a fix). I've replaced the weird "Internal error" Mediawiki was returning with a proper 500 page so the behaviour might be different. I'll also be keeping an eye on these errors to see if I can figure out where they might be coming from. I'm sorry about the edit you lost; please let me know if the problem persists. —Muke Tever | 00:03, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
Late reply, but now it's working again. But just in case it comes back, would you mind telling me how one cleares the cache? --Qwynegold 21:55, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
It really depends on your browser. Check under your tools or options or preferences. (I use Opera, where it's under Preferences > History.) But even if issues with internal errors recur, I think the cache issue shouldn't. —Muke Tever | 02:41, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Wait, you mean it's the same thing as deleting history? OK, thx. --Qwynegold 15:36, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Not exactly, but it's usually in the same place. The history is the list of places you've been; the cache is the pages, images, etc. loaded while you were there. —Muke Tever | 15:00, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Templates don't work

I can't edit the data in the tables. When I save the page and then click edit, I still get just this instead of the actual code for the tables:

== Phonology ==
Why?? I have Internet Explorer 8 btw.

It's a feature—usually templates are kept as shorthand so they can be easily manipulated, so including them leaves them as references to the original. If, as in this case, you want to replace them with their source, you use the subst: command, which is a prefix — e.g. {{subst:Consonants}}, which on saving will convert the reference to the Consonants template into the source that would produce it, so you can edit it. Mind you that Template:infobox is designed so you shouldn't have to do this (unless you want to change its layout or something)—just supply parameters to fill in the blanks. (For more info on templates, see the Mediawiki help page.) —Muke Tever | 21:11, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Oh, okay. Thanks! I didn't understand it when I checked the template help page. --Qwynegold 22:28, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

CSS for template

Could you please add the following lines to MediaWiki:Common.css so that my dl-based interlinear template works correctly? Thank you. cedh audmanh 23:34, 21 April 2010 (UTC)


dl.gloss { display:inline; float:left; margin:0 0.5em 0 0; }
dl.gloss dd { margin-left: 0; font-size: smaller; }
Interesting piece. Added! —Muke Tever | 01:14, 22 April 2010 (UTC)


This problem has been around for really long, but I didn't think of asking about it until now. When I edit a page where there's already text, the edit box automatically scrolls down so that the line that I'm currently editing will be the last line shown in the box. This is really annoying because often I want to see what's written below, so I have to keep scrolling back and forth all the time. And if I copy a piece of text, whenever I paste it in somewhere else, the box automatically scrolls to the place where I copied it from. That's also superannoying. Do you happen to know what's causing that? I have Internet Explorer 8. --Qwynegold 15:36, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

No, I don't know what would cause that. Usually the behaviour of textboxes and pasting and such are handled by your operating system, and occasionally might be overridden by your browser; it's possible that a website might impose its own functionality on the matter with scripts and such, but I don't believe this wiki has anything like that—at least, I haven't noticed any of the things you mention. —Muke Tever | 22:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, I didn't find anything mentioned about it in the help pages for IE. *sigh* I guess I have to keep scrolling back-and-forth... --Qwynegold 14:15, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Headline levels

I have this one page where the seventh level of headlines doesn't work. Is there a limit to how many levels you can have? I can't do like


either because I need to be able to link to the section. :/ --Qwynegold 14:15, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I suspect the limit is the same as HTML, which only has 6 levels of headings itself. Now, I notice your page starts its heading hierarchy with the two-sign ==Heading== — there is one level above that you could use, e.g. =Heading=, so you could move the whole hierarchy up and squeeze one more in there. But really, if the page is going to get that elaborately nested, it might be prudent to move one of those top-level sections to its own page, e.g. Proto-Kunnurūjungo grammar or Proto-Kunnurūjungo morphology, with a link to it, and perhaps a briefer summary, on the main Proto-Kunnurūjungo page. —Muke Tever | 15:13, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
I see. Isn't level 1 used for the name of the article itself? Oh well, I'm gonna do like that anyways. Thanks! :D --Qwynegold 15:44, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


Category:Linguistic_morphology oughta be simply at Category:Morphology, I think. Someone makes a morphology page, the latter is what they're going to try stick it under… --Trɔpʏliʊmblah 16:06, 2 October 2010 (PDT)

Community portal

Is it just me or did this page use to exist some time ago? --Trɔpʏliʊmblah 13:05, 9 June 2011 (PDT)

Hmmm... no, nothing in the logs about it. We haven't exactly been the most community-minded community, I'm afraid. —Muke Tever | 16:23, 9 June 2011 (PDT)

Page Deletion

Hi! I've been bumping around the wiki for a bit, cleaning up things and tagging things, and I came across a completely empty page. ---> . I checked previous edits and it's never had any content on it. Is there a way to suggest that this page be deleted? bornfor 20:42, 9 June 2011 (EST)

Done. For the general case, it looks like there's Template:Deletion to mark a page for deletion, but I'm not sure anyone's watching for it—poking an admin might be the most effective way. —Muke Tever | 21:07, 9 June 2011 (PDT)

{{CURRENTUSER}} has stopped working

It seems the {{CURRENTUSER}} magic word has stopped working. Probably Meta:Extension:MyVariables used to be installed and isn't anymore. This breaks the help functionality of Help:Special_character_insertion. If you for some reason don't want to reinstate it, tell me so I can change the places where it is used to something useful. BPJ 08:12, 18 July 2011 (PDT)

That should be Extension:MyVariables

I don't know why CURRENTUSER stopped working. Actually, I'm not sure why it ever worked to begin with--I never had that extension installed and I believe the only extension we've removed is the Dynamic Page List one (might that have implemented it?). For the purposes of special character insertion, we can use [[Special:Mypage/charinsert]] to link and {{User:{{REVISIONUSER}}/charinsert}} to transclude. ('REVISIONUSER' shows who last edited a page, but in edit/preview mode shows the current user, so the functionality should be the same.) I have updated Help:Special character insertion and Frathwiki:Special character insertion accordingly -- let me know if there is someplace these solutions don't work. --Muke Tever | 11:11, 18 July 2011 (PDT)
Thanks for prompt action. I didn't know about [[Special:Mypage]] and wasn't sure how REVISIONUSER works; I was afraid I might create something which worked for me but broke for everyone else. I think CURRENTUSER actually used to be part of the core. BPJ 12:14, 18 July 2011 (PDT)

Of Captchas and Fake Users

With the continual onslaught of spam and fake user accounts / bots, it seems that most of the activity on "Recent Changes" is the deletion of spam and the removal of fake accounts. I know I've blocked more than hundred, and you've certainly done that and far more! I noticed that since you instituted them, several suspicious looking accounts have been created. Would it be possible to do what you did for the IB Wiki, namely, restrict editing to real users and restrict account creation to Wiki admins? It would be a little more work for the admins, but I think it pays off in article security (reduced vandalism) and wiki integrity (fewer attacks and less clean-up work). Elemtilas 21:30, 23 July 2011 (PDT)

(Sorry for the delay of answer.) While there may be a benefit to doing that, I would really prefer to make that more of a last resort. It makes sense for IB Wiki because that's less open to the public to begin with; on this wiki I'd prefer to have the barriers to entry as low as possible. On the bright side, outside of those few shady usernames it looks like the captchas are working; if we start seeing trouble again--which may suggest human intervention and not just unsupervised bot attacks--we can start looking into further measures. --Muke Tever | 00:05, 31 July 2011 (PDT)

Can't add new pages to conlang directory

How do I do that? I already created the pages, how do I link them to the directory? --Motonjia 14:11, 9 October 2011 (PDT)

If you mean Category:Conlangs, then just add [[Category:Conlangs]] anywhere on the page you want to be listed in it. (Likewise for any other Category: page.) --05:09, 10 October 2011 (PDT)
thanks for your help ^_^

What do you think of this thing?

I wanted to get a go-ahead before I go any further with it. Would hate to be doing something which isn't wanted. :s -bornfor 02:02, 21 October 2011 (EDT)

The only thing I would worry about is making sure that whatever we do with their data is compatible with their license (which, from the archive links, looks like CC-by-nc-sa). Outside of that concern, nihil obstat. —Muke Tever | 06:38, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
I've added an attribution notice and a link to their licensing as a "footer" for an article that I created: Aertran. Does that make my usage compatible with their licensing in an acceptable manner, as far as you know? (I'm just making sure.) -bornfor 22:08, 21 October 2011 (EDT)
If I recall correctly--it's been a while since I checked--the most important parts are a link to the original work, a link to the license, and attribution to the author. It looks like the article does the first and your notice box the latter two, at least if we may take 'LangMaker' to be the author. The wording seems a bit odd but it's a bit late for me to see where exactly and what would make it better; at least one can make a template of it and finalize the niceties of it later. (A related template would be Template:Wikipedia-CC-by-sa-3.0.) --Muke Tever | 23:32, 21 October 2011 (PDT)


I've been guilty so far of just using the LangMaker's name for these conlangs. I appreciate you sticking Amman îar under a more lang-appropriate page. You rock! - bornfor 10:52, 27 October 2011 (EDT)

No problem - was just a name I happened to recognize from ages past. --Muke Tever | 15:49, 27 October 2011 (PDT)

'Page of the month'

Have we considered having some kind of feature where people can nominate a page for 'page of the month'- or perhaps a category which holds a number of pages which are notably complete and/or worth imitating, out of which such a page could be chosen? I'm just wondering, because I keep coming across pages which are remarkably complete/well-formatted, and I think they deserve a 'star', or something. >.> - bornfor 17:26, 30 October 2011 (EDT)

I don't recall us trying anything like that so far. --Muke Tever | 17:36, 30 October 2011 (PDT)

Would we be terribly opposed to my trying to set something like that up? I think it would help to have an easily-referencable list of good articles on Frath. - bornfor 15:03, 8 November 2011

Nothing against it; do we have an active enough community to sustain it? --Muke Tever | 15:59, 8 November 2011 (PST)

I'm of the mindset that If You Build It (well enough), They Will Come. We don't have a terribly active community here, no. But perhaps in the future we will. All the same, I don't see how labeling some articles as exemplary and maintaining a list of them would require an active community. We could do an article a month as a featured one. I'm sure there are at least a dozen "noteworthy" articles here already; It's just a matter of marking them as such. --bornfor 00:48, 9 November 2011 (EST)

Norton Safe Web Issue

Hey Muke! Do you have any ideas why Norton's Safe Web rates Frath Wiki with a caution? It seems to indicate that something about the login page is connected with phishing. I note, for comparison, that the Ill Bethisad Wiki gets a green light from Norton. Any ideas what the difference might be? Elemtilas 11:33, 25 December 2011 (PST)

According to their site it wasn't the wiki's login page but a file called "Login.php" that was under the wiki's upload directory (/images). I don't know how old the report is or when they saw it, but I have an idea this was the issue we had back in January—the directory is the same. The wiki has been reinstalled from scratch since then and that file no longer exists. —Muke Tever | 12:58, 25 December 2011 (PST)

Interwiki links

Do we have interwiki links for other conlang wikis? That would be the likes of IB Wiki, KneeQuickie (, Akanawiki ( and the Conlang Wikia ( --Trɔpʏliʊmblah 12:29, 23 May 2012 (PDT)

There are a few interwiki links currently (though they were added so long ago that it looks like several no longer exist). Out of the ones you list only IB Wiki currently has an interwiki (do, e.g., IBWiki:Japan). I will add these and clean up the rest and update Help:Editing#Interwiki links later this evening. —Muke Tever | 18:52, 23 May 2012 (PDT)
I've updated Help:Editing#Interwiki links with everything except the Langmaker one. It turns out we did have dead interwikis to what KneeQuickie and the Conlang Wikia were back in the day; Kutjara: and Conlangcity: have been updated accordingly. —Muke Tever | 00:45, 24 May 2012 (PDT)


Hi! I noticed you had made me an administrator. Thanks! Um, what does this mean exactly? :)
Qwynegold 01:59, 12 August 2012 (PDT)

No obligations — just the ability to delete spam and block spammers if necessary. —Muke Tever | 20:16, 12 August 2012 (PDT)
OK, thanks!
Qwynegold 06:59, 15 August 2012 (PDT)

username change

What is the policy on username changes? masako

I don't believe we have a policy per se, but basically if you need your account renamed, just let me know what you need it changed to. If it's not already taken, it shouldn't be a problem. —Muke Tever | 22:03, 11 November 2012 (PST)
Nice. Well, in keeping with my abandonment of Qatama and embrace of Kala, I'd like the user name "masako". I've already checked and I see no other user with that name. Thanks in advance. masako
Your account should now be renamed. (It is 'Masako' as the wiki is not configured to allow pages or usernames to start with lower-case letters.) The rename page threw an error mid-action and didn't move your user page, so I did that manually. If you encounter any trouble, please let me know. —Muke Tever | 06:27, 12 November 2012 (PST)
Everything seems fine. Thank you very much. masako


I tried to upload an SVG file I made ( and can't seem to get it to work. It appears to be that the wiki can't handle it. Can you please advise? Should I give up on that file format? Thanks --Aquatiki 03:16, 15 November 2012 (PST)

Thumbnailing always seems to be the thing that breaks around here, one way or another -.- I will look into this when I get home from work this evening. —Muke Tever | 06:37, 15 November 2012 (PST)


Hey superman! Thanks again for fixing SVG's: that's was awesome. Presently, I am struggling with audio clips. I made an ogg (
) but it does not seem to be able to play-in-place. Actually, it doesn't seem to play at all, only download. I know I have a player installed, since I am able to view/listen on Wikipedia, but Frathwiki forces me to download everything (see also someone else's
Some Phrases.ogg
). If there anything on your end that can be done? Have great Thanksgiving (if you do that kind of thing)! --Aquatiki 13:57, 21 November 2012 (PST)
If you mean, like, the in-page player like Wikipedia has at (e.g.) wikipedia:Arabic alphabet#Consonants, this looks like it is implemented by a particular wiki extension. The one Wikipedia uses appears not to be compatible with our version of Mediawiki, but it seems there may be older extensions with similar functionality. I will look into this this weekend. —Muke Tever | 18:21, 21 November 2012 (PST)
Thank you so much! You really do run a great site here and I am very grateful for your time and attention! --Aquatiki 21:39, 21 November 2012 (PST)


Would you be willing to add another acceptable file type? I'm talking about $wgFileExtensions[] = 'keylayout' . These are keyboard layouts that make typing in other languages very easy. They are small (<100 KB) XML files, so it should be no security risk. What do you think? --Aquatiki 16:01, 26 January 2013 (PST)

Several Deletion Requests

I'm turning over a new leaf on this wiki (possibly) so I'd appreciate it if you could delete the following pages of mine:

Main Page/Tha-Vengya







Xa Zen Qa

Xá Zẹ̀ŋ Qâ




File:Nin Lo.png


Thank you! --Pazmivaniye 07:23, 12 May 2013 (PDT)

Some Questions

I was/am an admin for a gaming Wiki that also used MediaWiki, and there we had a robust system of categorizations and templates... But I can't seem to find where to categorize images and things properly. What can you tell me about those things as they apply to Frath? — Pill-37.png Talk · Cont 23:39, 19 July 2014 (PDT)

Well, I can't promise we have anything that'd be characterized as robust in this regard. Conlanging being what it is, most contributors here concern themselves more with their own work first, though a few folks have worked on such organizational efforts (like Frathwiki:Community portal)... basically, if you find anything useful to already exist, feel free to improve it, and if not, feel free to implement it if it's not likely to be too disruptive. —Muke Tever | 16:47, 21 July 2014 (PDT)
You may have noticed I put together some Userbox Templates, since it didn't appear as though we had any... At least not obviously. Though it doesn't look like most folks mess with their user pages too much.
Thanks for the quick reply! So, essentially it sounds like organization and such is sorta DIY. I guess I will just have to get used to that, since singlehandedly setting up a Category system seems a little too arduous for my tastes.  :-). — Pill-37.png Talk · Cont 00:28, 22 July 2014 (PDT)

Can't undo! D:

I was working on the page Peruskanjit when the page crashed. I had copied down the section I was working on, so I just refreshed, pasted in everything and saved. To my horror it turned out that the editor had shifted from editing just a section to editing the whole page, so a huge amount of stuff was lost.
I can't use the rollback function for some reason, and when I try to undo, the page crashes. It says "Error 502. Bad gateway." I've tried three times and it's always the same thing. Can you help? T_T
--Qwynegold (talk) 11:13, 6 August 2014 (PDT)

Qwynegold, I've restored the page to the previous edit. If the broken edit had additional information you wanted to integrate, it may be viewed here. I'm not sure what caused the 502 error (I was getting it as well, and will see if I can find the cause) but in the meantime if you have trouble with the automatic undo function you can click on "history", then the timestamp of the edit you wanted to keep, then "edit" to get the source of the page as it was at that time, to save it as a new edit. Please let me know if you have any other questions. —Muke Tever | 16:39, 6 August 2014 (PDT)
Yay, thank you! Okay, I'll keep that trick in mind.
--Qwynegold (talk) 12:53, 7 August 2014 (PDT)

Help with a Template

I was trying to alter the {{Infobox}} template a bit to allow the addition of an image above the rest of the content information, but apparently I am not as good with CSS tables as I thought. For the life of me, I can't figure out how to get an extra </tr> to stop showing up on my page. It seems to work fine on a page that isn't using the image line though. If I remove the tr from the IF section, then the next row of the table, a header, will appear in the wrong spot. It's maddening! Can you help me out?

This page is the one I want to remove the extra tr tag from, Ḳënaal ṭël Tuu‎, and here is an example of a page using it without an image: Silendion. Thanks in advance for helping me out! — Pill-37.png Talk · Cont 13:56, 8 August 2014 (PDT)

It looks like it was failing because the row being added was being put inside another row and the parser didn't like that. Moved it out and it seems normal, is it doing what you were expecting now? —Muke Tever | 19:15, 9 August 2014 (PDT)
Seems to be! Thanks a lot! I am much better with dealing with the wiki formatting for tables. — Pill-37.png Talk · Cont 12:10, 10 August 2014 (PDT)

Template Problem

I was attempting to use the {{Hidden}} template, but no matter what I do, it won't seem to work for me. I even copied the code directly, and noticed it doesn't even work in the example on the Template page. What's wrong with it, and can you fix it? — Pill-37.png Talk · Cont 01:04, 29 September 2014 (PDT)

It doesn't look like it ever worked; it looks like Fenhl created it imitating the method used in older versions of MediaWiki, but required code that was never added to the site (so far as I know). I edited it so that it works according to what MW does now. More detail in case you want to tweak it or do your own thing is in the Mediawiki Manual. —Muke Tever | 16:40, 29 September 2014 (PDT)

File Naming

Sorry to keep bugging you with these little things!

However, I seem to have encountered another issue. Since I have a penchant for renaming and rearranging aspects of my conlang, and went through updating the script's glyph files used on this site, I noticed I transposed two of them. But, since I can't delete the file, that means I can't actually switch them, since the wiki won't let me move something to where a file already is.

So, could you please move File:SHI-k1.png to File:SHI-k.png and then also the file that is now File:SHI-k.png to File:SHI-t.png.

Again, sorry about all of these little requests I keep throwing your way. I guess I am still sort of used to being an admin on the City of Heroes wiki, and so was able to delete things and move files without creating the default re-directs and such. It made shifting things around soooo much easier for me. Oh well. — Pill-37.png Talk · Cont  01:53, 7 October 2014 (PDT)

Okay I moved SHI-k to Image:SHI-t.png SHI-t.png and SHI-k1 to Image:SHI-k.png SHI-k.png. It may take a bit for caches to update. (Though I see you've tried uploading a new version, that might work too.) —Muke Tever | 05:56, 7 October 2014 (PDT)

P.S. I also noticed that my signature seemed to be acting weird and displaying a codeblock with the date stamp when it never did that before. I think that I fixed it by including a trailing nbsp in my sig Template... any idea what broke it?

If you mean "[displaying] [a codeblock with the date stamp]", the date is added if you use four tildes instead of three to sign. But I suspect you know that already... if you mean "[displaying a codeblock] [with the date stamp]" I might need more information on what kind of codeblock you were seeing. Was a template not rendering? —Muke Tever |

Another Question

I'm not sure if you're still active here at all, but I figured asking wouldn't hurt. I re entirely posted a question for WeepingElf, but they didn't know how to help or really how to answer. I was wondering if maybe you could? The relevant post is here.

Thanks in advance! — Pill-37.png Talk · Cont  01:31, 25 September 2017 (PDT)

(Answered on your talk page.) —Muke Tever | 04:22, 25 September 2017 (PDT)