User talk:WeepingElf

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oh my god hahahaha Flafi is such a hilarious language. it's like pokémon, which can only say their own name, truncations of it, repetitions of it but nothing else. hahahaha you've made my day oh gosh this is too funny. -grin --Denihilonihil 08:13, 22 February 2006 (PST)


Joerg, I've updated more of the Silindion page, if you'd like to take a look. User:Erelion12


You do know, I suppose, that 'Canarese' is an older English term for the Dravidian language Kannaḍa. Actually wp:Canarese redirects to wp:Kannada language! Why not 'Canarian' to resolve the ambiguity? wp:Canarian redirects to a page about the modern people of the Canary Islands. The OTL aborigines and their language are called Guanche. BPJ 17:21, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

The language template

Hi, I was wondering if you could help me with the language summary template? I need one without the fields genealogy, word order, morphological type and morphosyntactic alignment, because I'm using it on an orthography page. But simply deleting those fields won't get rid of them. What's the actual wiki-code for this table?


You can delete the relevant rows just like you can delete any other source code in your page. Where is the problem?

They don't disappear from the table when viewing the page normally, even if I delete those rows from the code.
Then I'm wondering if you could help me with another related problem. ;) I'm writing this article, and have that same template in it. Although, it seems to have been updated since when I last wrote to you, because it looks completely different now. In the genealogy section, I want to specify "Revived Middle Cornish" as a dialect, but I don't understand how to do that, or what the end result is supposed to look like exactly. This template's help page isn't helpful now that the code looks different. :/
Qwynegold 12:15, 10 November 2012 (PST)

I cannot help you because the template is no longer the way I made it. I did not write the code you have trouble with. Somebody else has added some magic to it which is beyond my understanding. WeepingElf 11:45, 12 November 2012 (PST)

Oh, I see. Oh well, thanks anyway. Qwynegold 04:48, 14 November 2012 (PST)


Hey there! I'm Wattmann (duh), from the forums! Just wanted to say hello :) - The Swamp Watcher 15:29, 19 September 2012 (PDT)

Thanks for the add! -- User:Hammerfeallan 21:59, 25 June 2018


I realize this may be a few years overdue, but congrats on your Admin status here! masako


Hello there! I wasn't sure if Muke was still active or not, so I looked at the Active User list to find an Admin who is still actively using the Wiki; and I found you! Anyway, I have a few things and was wondering if you could help me out with them:

  • Do you know if folks actively purge stuff out of the For deletion category? If not, is there a better way to ask Admins to delete things for me?
    • Relatedly, as I tend to mess with naming conventions and what not, I was wondering if it would be possible for someone to give me the ability to rename pages and suppress the automatic creation of a re-direct page. I know this isn't generally done for ordinary users, but I can assure you that I have no interest in purposefully breaking links willy-nilly and actually would just like to be able to move my stuff around when I need to without creating a swath of dead pages in my wake that may never get dumped themselves. I am well aware of checking the "What links here?" link to make sure that when I move things it makes as few dead links as possible. Just a thought that might make less work for you guys in the long run and minimize the number of dead pages I end up making.
  • And, finally, I have been messing around a lot with a template that creates a table for use within another table. Unfortunately, it has a bad habit of being obnoxious and won't let me center the resulting tables inside the cells of the other table I am using it in. Is there a better way to do this (mayhap using div-boxes or spans, or some other trickery I just don't know)? If not, can you make any suggestions for the syntax of the page/templates in question. They are: Vingdagese#Characters, Template:VDT+ and the other version of the template which basically just makes placing Files easier Template:VDT.

Also, I hope you don't mind, but I added some headings to some of the earlier questions that folks posted here as they appeared above the auto-generated TOC. I also shifted it to the right side of the page so that it intrudes less in the flow of text. I apologize if that was a bit too presumptuous of me. I just know that Talk pages can get pretty out of hand eventually.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you are able to give me! — Pill-37.png Talk · Cont  01:57, 18 September 2017 (PDT)

Well, thanks for the answer, such as it was. Do you have a suggestion as to who might be better able to answer my questions? — Pill-37.png Talk · Cont  20:53, 19 September 2017 (PDT)
Thanks just the same for the responses! — Pill-37.png Talk · Cont  01:23, 25 September 2017 (PDT)

League of Lost Languages

Hello! Thank you very much for accepting me in the community! I've been looking at projects here for many times, I find interesting the topic of Ibero-Hesperic, like Balla and Corunese, Have you thought about these languages?--Spinovenator (talk) 16:12, 15 December 2017 (PST)

I haven't done much work on them yet, and they are rather low priority; I am currently focussing on Proto-Hesperic and Old Albic. --WeepingElf (talk) 12:08, 17 December 2017 (PST)

OK, Thank you! Would be there any way to participate in League of Lost Languages? I have some ideas. --Spinovenator (talk) 06:10, 18 December 2017 (PST)

You can join, by subscribing to the [email protected] mailing list; but I should warn you that that list is virtually dead, and the League of Lost Languages is essentially a thing of the past. Nobody except me works on that thing any more, it seems. --WeepingElf (talk) 08:23, 18 December 2017 (PST)

I have set up a little brainstorming page for our purposes. --WeepingElf (talk) 11:40, 19 December 2017 (PST)

Oh it's perfect! I want to actively participate in these languages, in a few months I'll have some more time, because now I'm busy with the studies... I'm anxious to create a "Proto-Ibero-Hesperic"! --Spinovenator (talk) 15:53, 11 January 2018 (PST)

I have seen your edits on the brainstorming page. You have suggested wholesale borrowings of Basque inflectional suffixes into Ibero-Hesperic. This, however, is not the way such things work. I rather thought of building Basque-like syntactic structures from morphemes inherited from Proto-Hesperic. --WeepingElf (talk) 11:58, 12 January 2018 (PST)

Sorry, It was a copy of the Basque characteristics that I got out of wikipedia and I put it without wanting to, I do not want the Proto-Ibero-Hesperic to be like the Basque, only that it has similar characteristics. It has been a mistake. --Spinovenator (talk) 12:45, 12 January 2018 (PST)

Fine. I think we are coming to terms. --WeepingElf (talk) 06:08, 13 January 2018 (PST)

I need a word in Proto-Hesperic to name "Ibero-Hesperic", as a "person", "language" or other. I had thought about naming him with the *Usk- stem, adopted from the Proto-Basque language, but it would not be logical for native Basques to call foreigners by their name, or for Proto-Ibero-Hesperic to adopt the name of the natives without being culturally absorbed. I have seen your work with Tommian Family, in case you need it for the kartvelian etymology, there is a good page that I use [1] --Spinovenator (talk) 15:30, 14 January 2018 (PST)

Fine; I have to think about your suggestions. You should check the directions of the arrows, though; it seems to me as if some were backwards. It is old > new, or new < old. However, I feel that at the present stage, this project is premature (though we can already talk about it, of course), as I still have a lot to work on Proto-Hesperic and West Hesperic (as an intermediate protolanguage). (Also, Tommian is in a very early stage, and the sound changes not yet laid down.) --WeepingElf (talk) 09:13, 15 January 2018 (PST)

Ok, it's already revised. I have other ideas to carry out in other Paleo-Hispanic languages. I'll wait until you have more information about Proto-Hesperic. --Spinovenator (talk) 07:57, 18 January 2018 (PST)

I have added a note on the geographical range of Ibero-Hesperic to the brainstorming page. --WeepingElf (talk) 13:13, 18 January 2018 (PST)

Perfect! Do you think that the ancient Greeks could have related the Ibero-Hesperic peoples to Oestriminis, Ophiussa, Sefes and Dragani (names that appear in [Ora maritima])? --Spinovenator (talk) 13:42, 18 January 2018 (PST)

Frankly, I have no ideas about those old names. --WeepingElf (talk) 10:38, 19 January 2018 (PST)

Sorry for the inconvenience, is there any easier way to make a data table (declension, phonemes, etc...)? Also you could change the name to Huamish for Eteolusitanian, if it seems right? --Spinovenator (talk) 13:05, 24 January 2018 (PST)

You mean, rename it from "Huamish" to "Eteolusitanian"? I could do that, yes, but first I'll ask you why you want to abandon such a nice short name in favour of a much more cumbersome and long-winded one (8 sylllables!). --WeepingElf (talk) 06:31, 25 January 2018 (PST)

Okay, it's also true, it's that I thought about changing to give information about its origin, but I'll leave it as well as huamish. Thank you! I have an other question, is there any easier way to make a data table (declension, phonemes, etc...), and where there are templates for tables? --Spinovenator (talk) 10:14, 25 January 2018 (PST)

At least, I know of none. --WeepingElf (talk) 13:39, 25 January 2018 (PST)

One question, do you have some Proto-Hesperic patrimonial vocabulary? is to start creating something about Ibero-Hesperic. --Spinovenator (talk) 06:31, 16 February 2018 (PST)

What do you mean by "patrimonial vocabulary"? This is the very first time I heard this expression! Do you mean 'inherited vocabulary'? I am working on this. --WeepingElf (talk) 10:12, 16 February 2018 (PST)

Sorry, I thought that is also said in English! The meaning is "inherited", which derives from the mother tongue following the phonetic rules of evolution of itself. I do not know how to explain. I was referring to own or genuine proto-Hesperic vocabulary, It's the part of Hesperic vocabulary that arrived in Iberian Peninsula. A good example so you can understand, you think in an interior language, which will not inherit maritime terms, therefore, these maritime terms do not fall within their "partimonial vocabulary" inherited directly from a previous proto-language. OK, is "inherited vocabulary" (Silly of me!). I reffered to Hesperic vocabulary, only the part thaht will be inherited in Ibero-Hesperic. Sorry. I'll wait for you to finish it, but there are numerals? --Spinovenator (talk) 10:33, 16 February 2018 (PST)

I see. I will soon add some basic vocabulary, including numerals, to Proto-Hesperic. Today I was busy and did not have the time to do anything, but I am planning to start tomorrow. --WeepingElf (talk) 13:32, 17 February 2018 (PST)

I have started to put up Proto-Hesperic vocabulary; I have also summarized the main developments in West vs. East Hesperic. --WeepingElf (talk) 08:30, 19 February 2018 (PST)

I love your work, it really is amazing! --Spinovenator (talk) 10:33, 23 February 2018 (PST)

Thank you! --WeepingElf (talk) 12:34, 23 February 2018 (PST)

I really like the Hesperic family more and more! It's amazing! I have some things done for Durian, and when I have a little time I will do a Proto-Durian, I want that you help me, because you are the true author of Hesperic and I do not want it to be implausible. I have a question, Mediterranean Hesperic is a phylogenetic group? --Spinovenator (talk) 12:15, 10 March 2018 (PST)

I think we should go separate ways, as our level of expertise is different. I do not mean to be condescending towards you, but I feel that while some of your ideas have merit, I don't think it would be a good idea if you did Proto-Durian, and I want to do it myself. Hesperic is a rather personal matter of mine, you have to understand. It is like a band where beginners play together with experienced musicians; such situations easily lead to frustration as the different expectations of the members are hard to reconcile.

As for Mediterranean Hesperic, I am not really sure yet whether it is a phylogenetic grouping or not.

--WeepingElf (talk) 04:02, 12 March 2018 (PDT)

I have renamed the Tommian family to Kachian because the guy that had inspired the old name has turned out to be a fraud. --WeepingElf (talk) 03:57, 14 March 2018 (PDT)

Regarding Hesperic, it seems to me correct, anyway I will follow the project to see how it evolves, I find it interesting. Meanwhile I will continue with other projects. If I can help you something with respect to the Basque language I have enough knowledge of the language. Thank you! --Spinovenator (talk) 12:46, 14 March 2018 (PDT)

Fine. Your help with Basque is always welcome. --WeepingElf (talk) 03:48, 15 March 2018 (PDT)

I have undone the change from "Tommian" to "Kachian". The dispute with my friend Thomas has been settled, and the old name is back. --WeepingElf (talk) 08:15, 20 March 2018 (PDT)

Well, the issues I had with that guy weren't really settled and the band has finally broken up, so it's no longer "Tommian", this time for good. It is now "Mirian", but that will be changed to "Midrean", as "Miri" is the name of one of Herman Miller's peoples, so the name is to be considered taken. I think Razaric will remain a part of it, as will Eteonoric. I am now trying to reconcile the membership of Eteonoric with the assumption that Midrean is distantly related to Kartvelian. There won't be much in common between Midrean and Kartvelian, as the relationship is as distant as that between IE and Uralic, but it still needs a lot of work to get the pronouns to match. It seems, though, as if it helps if in Eteonoric, the back sibilants become velars, and the "emphatic" stops become aspirated ones. And then, Eteonoric may have innovated by means of honorifics and all that; consider how English has all but lost PIE *tu/*te, and would hardly be recognizable as a Mitian language if we did not know its history and relatives! --WeepingElf (talk) 13:00, 20 May 2018 (PDT)

Hello, a lot of sorry for being absent for so long time! but I have not had much time since then and I think now I can start again seriously, with this project. I have been investigating and I have decided that Huamish is incongruous with the history of europe and in his case it would have been much more vasconic. I have seen Agroic as a good idea, although Huamish was already initially focused to be Cardial Impressed. The idea is that ​​Agroic expanding by displacing the rest of the Mediterranean languages ​​leaving the Ibero-Vasconic and Sardinian and perhaps some groups like North Picene and Sicani. It would make sense that if cardial impressed was expanded by the Mediterranean its toponymic trail was almost completely erased with almost 500 years of Roman rule, that in case there were any traces that had not been erased by the Indo-Europeans. We can suppose that the Basques were originally hunter-gatherers and the arrival of the Cardial Impressed, pressed them, or maybe not ...?, Because in the Neolithic population density was scarce, so each culture could stay in his area without disturbing others, so maybe the Basques were not very affected by this arrival, that situation would be in the whole peninsula surely. The Basques and other peoples would end up adopting agriculture before the Indo-Europeans arrived with their societies as Cogotas I, who already wanted a large territory so the ancient peoples would be displaced, before this the Iberians expanded to the south, and the only ones that would remain of the ancient cardials would be the Tartessians and Turdetans with a very uncertain language of filiation and with an ancient and flourishing culture, while "pacifying" at least with the Iberians, not so much with the Celts, which It could reflect that old relationship between both peoples. This is just specifying in a rough way. I deleted the Huamish page to make a large-scale family for the Mediterranean that really represents Cardial Impressed, then I will retrieve the Huamish data to perhaps make its Iberian variant or to serve as data in the Proto-Cardial. I would like us to agree on some points about Agroic to work on a common basis with Midrean. Sorry for stay absent and for my english which seems to have worsened. --Spinovenator (talk) 05:03, 25 October 2018 (PDT)

Thank you very much for your answer. It is not necessary that you erase the blank pages, I will do the new work in those pages. In principle I will start to create the proto-language with some characteristics between Kartvelian and Vasconic, and with others of their own. I will start with a large consonant inventory but a poor vocal inventory and I will also try to put the pronouns to see what common things can be with Midrean. Do not hesitate to criticize me if you see something you do not like or that may be inconsistent, I learn from mistakes! ;) --Spinovenator (talk) 11:05, 25 October 2018 (PDT)

login from mobile phone

Sorry to bother. Suddenly last night, I was no longer able to edit or login from my mobile phone, getting a message saying I had cookies turned off (which isn't possible). Being logged in is helpful for me because I have minor visual problems and use CSS that makes the pages easier to read, so even without editing I get use out of this wiki when I am logged in. I searched the Internet and it seems it may be a problem on the server end and that there is nothing I can do from my phone. For the meantime, editing from the big screen PC still works but I don't have access to it directly because I use a hotspot.

Please help if you can.

Thank you, Soap / Poswob Rare (talk) 06:52, 23 May 2018 (PDT)

I am sorry but I can't help you with this at all. I am not a MediaWiki wizard (while I have been awarded admin status, nobody ever gave me a tutorial in such matters), and all I know about accessing the Internet by mobile phones is that those things make a lot of problems which "real" computers don't - but again I have no idea how to fix them. Perhaps Muke can help you - I can't. --WeepingElf (talk) 07:52, 23 May 2018 (PDT)

OK thanks for the prompt reply. However, if my theory is right, it's a server-side problem related to storage of login tokens, and will affect everyone eventually as the remaining tokens expire. I am editing from a third computer right now ... the phone login still doesn't work. I will copy this post to User talk:Muke and add a note. Soap (talk) 11:23, 23 May 2018 (PDT)

Change username

Could you please rename me to rgj40q? That's my nickname at all other conlanging forums. --rgj40q (talk) 18:35, 5 November 2018 (PST)

Renaming pages is no great deal, but I don't know if renaming users is even possible, and if yes, I have no idea how to do that. You should ask Muke for advice. --WeepingElf (talk) 06:58, 6 November 2018 (PST)
Found it: User_talk:Muke#username_change --rgj40q (talk) 07:03, 6 November 2018 (PST)


On Universal Transcription System (Jörg Rhiemeier):

"But in 2019, the system was reborn in an extended form as the Internatonal Hesperic Alphabet." I notice it didn't link; that's because you probably meant International Hesperic Alphabet. Khemehekis (talk) 18:21, 21 January 2020 (PST)

Of course! I'll fix that. --WeepingElf (talk) 06:49, 22 January 2020 (PST)