Talk:Soap Bubbles

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Other infirmation

Use of the word "classroom"

The word "classroom" is a misnomer, as despite being young, all of the rulers in the Clover administration were graduates of their school, which typically ended around age 13. At most, calling the rulers classmates could have been used by their enemies as an insult. But they would have had a name of their own.


Another young king, Bašaisekas, took the throne in early 4200, appointed as before by STW. STW considered the boy to be the heir of the position that the Golden Sun had held, but left the question open as to whether he was the king of the Soap Bubbles, of the Slime Handlers, or of a piece of territory untethered to party membership. His main qualification for the position of king was that he was nearly as rich as the Golden Sun had been.

He may have used the reshaped name Pasīpas, which consists of the same three morphemes but with stress shifted such that the result has a more typical Play sound.

Timeline details

Role of gender

Nearly all of the male rulers here exhibited corrupt behavior while the female rulers exhibited clean morals and altruistic behavior. This is also the era in which the Matrix and Scorpion armies, both using explicit male imagery, arose and promoted war for its own sake rather than as a means to preserve a nation or people in distress. Moonshine's feminist power structure meanwhile strongly embraced pacifism, going so far as to adopt refugees from the male-led nations even though they had no means of disarming the men and knowing that many were planning to fight a war in Moonshine against both the defenseless Moonshines and each other.

An even more blatant example of male misleadership came from the self-proclaimed Unholy Alliance, whose twelve male leaders agreed that they were evil. Assuming continuity of rule, these twelve men were all at least forty years old (since the group had formed in 4174) by the turn of the century, and they therefore provided a strong counterexample to the argument that the young age of the Sun and his cohorts was the real reason why their rulers were so corrupt.

Thus, during both the "Xideri years" and the preceding 14-year interregnum, almost all of the "good" characters were female and almost all of the "evil" characters were males. This latter category included both men and boys. Moonshine became ever more convinced by this developing situation that men were not fit to wield power, and this may have fooled Moonshine into joining the Matrix-STW coalition even though the Matrixes were sexually abusing their slaves.

Moonshine did not allow heads of state. They had lost control of the state of Hōmoya to such an extent, though, that a de facto head of state calling herself Right Arm had taken power, and she was in her early teens just as the Golden Sun was. Moonshine explained this away by saying she was a toparch, ruling one city only, and that her control over the rest of Hōmoya was extralegal.

The Moonshines also turned against the sun itself, saying it was a symbol of masculine power; the Blue Sun was the sun turned cold, however, so she had Moonshine's support.

Note that the Swamp Kids were primarily of Play ancestry, meaning their women were taller than their men, and men could physically attack women without being shunned by other men. However, people such as Silas came from tribes where men were both taller and more muscular than women. Because they were part of the same society, they still could assault women without facing universal condemnation, but typically such men had exhibited more gentle manners. In this era, it seems that the gentlemanly behavior of the tall-male tribes had begun to break down, at least among the youngest generation, which had had little contact with their ancestral culture.

Role of age

The sudden appearance of child rulers was due to STW. Traditionally, the Slimes, the Soap Bubbles, the Crystals, and even the Players had been ruled by adults even during times when their population structure had so many children that the adults could not take care of them all. STW, on the other hand, defined itself as a school and therefore had an artificially young population and power structure. Even STW still had adults in charge of these children and teenagers, but stated that graduates of STW's school were leaders in their own right, and could choose whether to obey their leaders or not. There was no minimum age for graduation, so some children made it through their courses at younger ages than others. (There were eight grades, and schooling usually started around the age of five. It was intended to last an average of eight years, but there were no divisions between the years and therefore some students progressed more quickly than this.)

Then, because these young rulers had difficulty getting adults to obey them, the people they promoted to share power with them were those from their own age group, and often, their former classmates. An opposing adult power structure did appear, led by the anti-STW partisans such as Matuanappa, and while they continued to hold power they were never famous and their personality traits and habits did not carry such great weight over the lives of their subjects as with the younger STW-derived rulers.

STW had never been able to project its power in this manner before. Indeed, they had just a few years earlier announced that they were closing all of their orphanages and would no longer identify themselves as a child-focused organization. The students such as the Golden Sun were those who had chosen to remain in STW, in part because they were extremely wealthy. But the promotion of young rulers also depended on influence from Laba, which had recently bailed both the Players and the forebears of the Slimes out of a war.

Party and language

The Slimes spoke Play. Traditionally, the Crystals had had their own language, Middlesex, but the upper and middle classes had been learning to speak Leaper for many generations, and a Leaper-speaking elite (not entirely Leapers) now controlled the Crystals in Baeba Swamp. The Crystals' ally, Moonshine, spoke its own language but this was similar enough to Leaper that the Crystals continued to speak Leaper, the language of their enemies, because they saw it as being also the language of their allies.

The Soap Bubbles had mostly abandoned their ancestral language early on as they came to live among the Crystals, and therefore followed the Crystals in learning to speak Leaper. However, many Soap Bubbles in the Clover stories were converts and may have spoken only Play. At least some of the Crystals were also converts. It may be that only adults of the Bubble and Crystal parties were typically fluent in Leaper, but this is not the reason why the young rulers tended to have Play names. Rather, the young rulers had Play names because they ruled over a Play-speaking population.

List of characters

It may be that while the Slimes had originally wanted a traditional adult king to wield absolute power to keep their population united, they were willing to settle for the Clover "classroom" in the idea that while their king still had absolute power, he clearly relied on his classmates for advice, and therefore the gaps of knowledge and experience would be compensated for by the large number of young people sharing power.

Many of the personalities in this list were assassinated, as they had little understanding of the need or the means by which to protect themselves. Most victims were Crystals (girls) and Soap Bubbles (boys) but their assassins came from various backgrounds, at least in one case involving the Sunspots, who were adult soldiers but were allied with and required to obey the Soap Bubbles.

The Sunspots had many advantages: they had the best weapons, they were attacking people who had recently been slaves and had few weapons, and most of their targets were very young. This turned popular opinion against the Sunspots, but the Sunspots were not a political party and therefore there was no clear enemy for the people to rise up against other than the "classroom" government that came to be called the Clovers.

The Sun was born in September 4178, and therefore his classmates are of a similar age. THIS SECTION NOW CONTAINS UNUSED OR INCOMPLETE CHARACTERS ONLY

Men and boys

  1. Sašup: Likely a king who replaced the Golden Sun, perhaps ruling the Soap Bubbles instead of the Slimes.
    He was not appointed by STW, and was likely not even an STW member. He was about the same age as the Golden Sun would have been had he survived, and it is possible that this character may be identical with the Golden Sun after all. He was nonetheless assassinated. He may have used a long Play name such as Nataimfūmtasa. This was a byname, and therefore did not need to conform to Play traditions. Remember also the word tesčum.
  2. Seyop: The younger brother of Sašup.
    Both of these names are in an abandoned language and will need to be replaced with new names, whether in Play, Leaper, or some other language. He may have used a Play byname such as Bemšamšaatasa. Assassinated by the same hand as his brother.
  3. Xideri: Possibly known in Play as Pasīpas or Bašaisekas.
    STW ceremonially crowned him king in the year 4200, making him much younger than even the Golden Sun when he first took power, but he did not wield any significant power over non-STW members until 4205. He had not been STW's originally favored candidate, but took over when a crocodile in Baeba Swamp bit off the right arm of their preferred candidate.
  4. Silas: a "farmer" known for his tall stature. His Play name may have been Našaata, but only if the morphemes were left unchecked as the name was inherited.
    Silas lived near Baeba but was historically of the western Play tribes who were among the few whose men grew taller than their women. Like the other rulers, he was probably not an adult when he took power. He was associated with Šasuasa, who by this time was in her late teen years or possibly early adulthood. He probably belonged to the Slime party but this may have meant little if he ruled during a period in which the Slimes had no nation to rule over; if so he would have been simply a military leader in his own right, similar to what the Red Sun had been.
    Silas was of the same age group as the rest, but very tall, and once kneeled down to talk to one of the other characters at eye level. He worked in law enforcement and believed that men should be the ones doing such jobs, but did not oppose feminism in and of itself.
  5. Soap: Rose to prominence as a reformer in the last years of the era.
    Soap was notably tall and thin, about the same height as Xideri but much more delicately built. The name "Mepa" comes from the word for soap in a trade language, and thus, if he had a Play name, it would be based on the Play word bimamiba, plus a word like taup intended to show his status.
    It is most likely that Soap was an adult, perhaps as much as 48 years old (see below) during the reign of the second crop of teenagers, but more likely he was born in the mid-4170s and therefore would have been a few years older than the Clover I rulers and a few decades older than the Clover II rulers. Unlike most other adults involved in the story, he had no power over the young rulers, even indirectly, and could only attempt to promote one young ruler over another. His main goal was to eliminate Xideri, but he soon turned against the entire "classroom" of rulers.
  6. Larêlo: "The Hedgehog".
    This person was an adult about the same age as Lanīs, or older. His name here is given in Leaper in the assumption that he would not have grown up speaking Play. His full name, however, may have been something like Larêlokʷa, with the last morpheme meaning "smith" and cognate to the Play word appearing in the Lava Handlers' name.
  7. Vatatavāna: A boy two years younger than Pasīpas. There was also a boy named Ipha who was assassinated. these WERE BOTH connected to the Firestones. The first part of the boy's name means hedgehog.
  8. Vānuana: "The Calculator".
    Essentially a replacement for the Red Sun, but did not command a private army. He opposed STW despite ruling from within STW. He thus belonged to the Slime party, though he derived little power from the Slimes, as they no longer had a nation of their own. He was likely a classmate of Xideri and therefore born around 4193. Note the long /ā/ in his given name, which means that his name has nothing to do with the vanua pepis disease. Even in the original writeup, this character is duplicated.

Women and girls

  1. The Moon: The younger sister of the Golden Sun, who claimed to rule Baeba Swamp during the time when her older brother ruled the Baeban district of Pavaitaapu.
    In fact she had no actual power, and no means to acquire it, as STW refused to give her any power until she graduated all of her classes. One reason why she failed to attract support was that she rejected feminism, knowing that feminism could delegitimize her brother's rule, and therefore embracing feminism would wall off her own path to power. She also rejected the male power structure of the Slime Handlers, however, and this proved no obstacle to her because her brother defected from the Slimes to the Soap Bubbles (who were gender-neutral) at an early age.
  2. The Riddle: The Golden Sun's unnamed first wife.
    Her Play name was Žapučiča, though sometimes she went by Žapuba, which had a similar meaning. She was younger than him, even then. Also known as Žaŋavaufa, unless this name is given to someone else.
  3. Right Arm: One of the Sun's early wives, she became a military leader and a head of state even though Moonshine did not allow heads of state.
    It is possible she was in a different party such as the Soap Bubbles. She was probably married to the Sun from 4191 to 4193. Assassinated, but much later than the others.
  4. Nanapipu: An orphan known as Star and "Hofammawesta".
    Likely one of the Sun's many wives; she was not named after him nor was her name in any way tied to the Sun/Moon dichotomy. She had blonde hair.
  5. Navutampi: Yet another wife of the Golden Sun.
    Possibly assassinated by the Red Sun. (At least one of the Sun's wives was.) The fact that the king put his best friend in a position where he could easily assassinate the king's own wife was mostly hidden from outside observers, and they did not realize how incompetent the Clovers' ordained government was.
  6. Kxesh: A female conservative leader.
    She was named after the country but was not of Kxel ancestry. This is probably the same character as Asteyelattoche. Assassinated by the Sunspots.
  7. The Blue Sun: A female liberal leader.
    She supported Moonshine and used cold weather in her symbols. Feminism was more important than other matters to these women, so the Blue Sun cooperated with Kxesh to oppose male leaders of all ideologies. She may have carried the sign celebrating the fall of the Empire. Assassinated by the Sunspots.
  8. 802: Depicted as crying upon seeing that Sašup was about to fall.
    Similar in age and likely an early classmate. Possibly known in Play as Mamnātata or Mamnās Tata.
  9. The Biting Bird: Yet another female leader who outlasted the Empire.
  10. Hapulsa: A Crystal military leader.
    All Crystal leaders in this story were female, even military leaders. Abducted (not assassinated).
  11. Lanīs: The president of STW.
  12. Žametus: Yet another victim of an assassination, likely in or around the year 4194.
  13. Xouliey: Possibly Xideri's wife or girlfriend. But she turns against him for political reasons.
  14. Šasuasa: Lived in Play territory and contacted the Clovers only through trade. Nonetheless she was a penpal of sorts for the Golden Sun. Note that the character representing Šasuasa in early writings (a boy) said "I may be only five years old" even when others were in their late teens, but that this could be considered extracanonical since it was detached from the main plotline.

The non-Sunspot assassinations may have been carried out indirectly by UAO, rather than the Slimes, as the Slimes would have had difficulty accepting such attacks even against an enemy party. But the Slimes had become hated by all sides, and may have acted independently or, perhaps, in the name of the Zenith (which would not have required them to actually join the Zenith). It is not clear what became of the Sunspots when the Red Sun was assassinated, but they may have assassinated the Golden Sun and his younger brother (assuming Sašup is the Sun) in revenge for his assassination of the Red Sun.

There may be other adults in the power structure of STW, and they could have patrolled both dynasties of teenagers. The first generation of Clover kids were so violent that STW's rulers would have pulled back from them for their own safety, however.

Notes on list and timelines

Note that the REINO writeup gives the Golden Sun the more humble age of 18 for the events beginning when he was 14, and also lengthens the events associated with his rule. For example, his marriage to Star lasted "a few years", and his plan to invade Xema took almost five years. He would likely have ascended the throne in his early teen years even in the REINO timeline, though perhaps without taking any significant independent actions of power.

Note that this timeline also lengthens other time intervals. For example, although it places his birth eighteen years earlier, it also states that this was contemporaneous with the Crystal-Soap peace treaty, which in the current writeup occurs in late 4186, only five years before the king obtained absolute power. And a six-year war in REINO takes two years in this timeline. It can only be that the events are accelerated in one timeline relative to the other.

In the original paper writeup, he was almost certainly not given an age at all, as it was not perceived to be a factor in opposition to his rule.


Another example of this mismatch is that Soap is born in 4205 in the Strawberry writeup, meaning he would have been not just young, but actually a baby at the time when he came to oppose Xideri's abusive slavery operations. Note that Soap's attempt to depose Xideri is bookended by events in 4206 and 4209 and therefore cannot be pushed forward to the period near 4221. By contrast, the REINO writeup describes Mepa as 48 years old, far older than all of the other "contemporary" characters in that writeup (but one year younger than Lanīs). It is possible that one or both writeups are stitched together and that neither birthyear is reliable. He was originally intended to be a contemporary of Xideri, and possibly a classmate. Nonetheless, if Soap is an adult after all, perhaps he could have been born in the mid-4170s, making him just a few years older than the first generation of young rulers such as the two Suns. He may have been shut out of power for precisely this reason, assuming the Suns trusted people their age but not adults, even young adults. This would explain his lack of interaction with both generations of rulers. It would be difficult to take the age of 48 as literal, however, as the timelines were never meant to correspond and it would have to be explained how Soap managed to survive many wars without seeming to have any combat experience when he rose into politics in the 4200s.

==fdsf==The Thunderers here had decided to collaborate with the Dreamers, as although they preferred independence, they felt that the Dreamers at least were rescuing the Thunderers from their previous oppressor, the Crystals. The Bubbles were the ones who refused to collaborate. Although both the Bubbles and the submissivist Thunderers agreed that they preferred independence, the Bubbles differed in that if their destiny was to be oppressed, they preferred Crystal oppressors to Dreamer oppressors.

The Soap Bubbles were not related to the Soap Bubble Societies of the 2400s despite originating in nearly the same geographic area. Since that earlier name was still in use amongst the descendants of those nations, as two of the three nations had in fact survived, they occasionally referred to themselves, at least in that part of the world, as the Snow. Snow had actually been the original proposed name for their party, but it had been changed to Soap before the official founding date in 3842, as they wanted a name that would be less inviting to the Dreamers and Dreamerized Thunderers who seemed to feel that the whole world was their bathroom.

The Soap Bubbles sometimes used nonviolent imagery to appeal to their enemies; whereas all of the other armies would slice people up with swords and stab them with spears, being conquered by the Soap Bubble army would merely make people feel refreshed and a ltitle bit prettier. They painted murals of their people dressed as soldiers, with giant white soap bars in place of swords. However, they knew from history that such claims to innocence bought little sympathy from stronger armies, and that if they ever wanted to be anything more than the bottommost group amongst an already oppressed people they would need to behave like normal people and establish a conventional army with swords and shields.

When the Thunderers overthrew the Dreamers in 3884 and established a racist government that oppressed Crystals moderately and Dreamers severely, the Bubbles did not reconcile. Even though the Bubbles had agreed all along that the Dreamers were far worse than the Crystals, the Thunderers had drifted so far apart from Bubblism by this time that the two parties had become enemies. The Bubbles claimed that they were the true descendants of the original Thunder party, because while the Thunderers had changed greatly under the Dreamer government, the Bubbles, having not been corrupted by power, had not changed at all. The Bubbles were very weak during this government, and many moved into Crystal territory to live amongst their oppressors, or into nations such as Paba where the central government was too weak to do them any harm.

When in 3919 the racist Thunder government was overthrown by a more moderate Thunder government, the Bubbles still did not make peace with the Thunderers. Nevertheless, the Thunder Empire was a very large place, and the Bubbles were able to find places to live within it in which they could live amongst only their own kind, protected by small but powerful Soap Bubble militias. They also set up colonies within Crystal territory, although these were much weaker, as the Crystals had better control of their territory and were racially distinct from the vast majority of the Bubbles and could thus spot them on sight.